Posts by Cold Steel

6

How Do I Change Avatars?

by Cold Steel in

i've been looking for ways to change mine, but i haven't found the way.

can anyone help??.

thanks.. .

Cold Steel

I've been looking for ways to change mine, but I haven't found the way. Can anyone help??

Thanks.

26

Campaign to Israel

by humanperson in

i have been wanting to introduce myself but i don't know where to begin.

my husband and i are enjoying our third guilt-free weekend of our lives (both born-in, almost 30).

he has been out mentally for the last year and a half but patiently waited for me to come around.

Cold Steel

They are going.... to be persecuted....they haven't been persecuted in a long time because most folks don't care if you are a witness....but think of this...while they are there...they may find out about 607 BC...ah, maybe God is intervening & sending them there to show that...no..not 607 BC....Or...God did say, when the Jews come back & believe in Jesus, that's when he'll move....so maybe the witnesses don't know that they will be doing God's will. Because the society feels that the Jews have been cut off, but not....

Well, I, for one, will be very impressed when they go to a Muslim country and offer their heads for the cause! And if they go to Israel and try to convert them, they'll find themselves not welcome in a hurry. Their country, after all, depends on military conscriiption and service, and teaching young men that they can't become military or police isn't going to go over very well. Also, if they even mention that 607 B.C. stuff, they'll be laughed out of Dodge. People are a lot more educated over there than here, and while they might get a lot of clueless Americans to buy off on that, there are many historians, archeologists and scripture students over there. And if they begin explaining Hebrew to these educated Israelis, they're going to be branded as nut cases. But who knows? It may help them in the end.

I reckon these missionaries are going to have to find out for themselves. If they so much as smile at someone, they'll be turned in for preaching Christianity. It's not tolerated.

2

Is there an ancient Christian creed that says credo in scripture?

by kepler in

consider the nicene creed.

does it mention bible?

it does say what a christian in a universal church of the roman empire should believe though.. one day i visited a service at a fundamental church and i noticed that a video display interjected the belief in holy scriptures into what otherwise looked to me like the credo i had learned in my own church.. the notion of a credo does not necessarily stay unaltered, i admit.

Cold Steel

You're quite right about the canon. And the fact is, the early Christian church didn't have a closed canon. Further, there's evidence that several of the apostles were intimately familiar with the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs, a book rejected by the early ecumenical councils. In fact, the book of Revelation came this close to being rejected. Can you imagine how that would have affected the future, particularly of the Adventist sects?

The LDS church has always taken it on the chin by the evangelicals because they say it “adds” to the Bible. Well, yes, it’s true we add scripture to the Bible, like the Book of Mormon, but the shock value lies in the fact that it’s so opposed to what people have been taught by the various professors of religion. And the very verse most of them use is that niggling little verse at the end of Revelation. The one about not adding to the prophecies of that book being “accursed.” Of course now, most people are sophisticated enough to realize that it means the “book” of Revelation, the Bible not having yet been compiled.

Ah, says the evangelical, but didn’t God know there would be a Bible? And didn’t He know that it would be in the last book? Well, they’ve got me there. I just can’t argue with that kind of logic. Like the Catholics, the Orthodox Christians say their doctrines are taken from scripture and tradition, both being equal. But tradition is an awfully slippery slope in that there can be wrong traditions. Both reject baptism for the dead, even though it was a tradition amongst at least some early Christians (see I Cor. 15:29). And there’s significant evidence that people were baptized by immersion rather than sprinkling, yet they choose to ignore that as well. At the same time, there’s not even a tradition for transubstantiation, praying to saints, wearing pompous vestments and so forth, so forget consistency.

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25

Re Hostage victims killed in Sydney: "dont worry, at least they will NOW get a ressurection"

by stuckinarut2 in

so most would now know of the vile act in sydney last week where a man held hostage over 17 people in the lindt cafe in the middle of sydney.. two people were murdered...a beautiful, educated lawyer,loving mother of three, and a brave, loving young man working as the cafe manager.. this senseless and cruel act has touched everyone deeply, especially in the communities of sydney.

the outpouring of grief and support for the victims and their families has been immense.. i was therefore outraged to have the following comment made by a witness in conversation at the kingdom hall:.

"well, we dont need to be sad, because at least now they (the two victims) will get a ressurection.

Cold Steel

How about suicide? If I'm an unbeliever and commit suicide, do I have a chance in the resurrection?

And BTW, why resurrect those people you're just going to blow away, anyway? Why not just leave them dead?

As I understand it, and as it's been explained to me, anyone resurrected is going to have a chance to go with either Satan or God in Armageddon. At that point, any Christian can say, "Uh, sure...I thought the Methodists were right, but now that I can choose sides, yeah, I'll go with God."

Besides, even if someone believes in life after death, that doesn't mean that those who are left behind don't suffer. They do...sometimes much worse than those who died. I mean, you're sitting around one afternoon watching SANFORD AND SON, then suddenly you get this sharp pain in your chest. You get up, feel a numbness your left arm and say, "Oh, sh--!" then you fall down. Now if most of Christianity is right, the person slips into the next world and rejoins loved ones. Or, if the JWs or Adventists are right, they black out and come to just as everything is coming to pieces. Dogs chasing cats, fire falling from the sky, blood running down the streets, the ground opening up and swallowing folks and buidings. Then when a building falls on them, they'll just rise right through it and keep on going. Or someone might wake up and find out that yes, cows rule the universe after all.

The real tragedy is, most times, the effect it has on others. Even if you're an atheist and your lights go eternally out, your families are still left to suffer. That's why I have compassion for the families of people who are executed, even tho I support capital punishment. It's always toughest on those who are left behind. Numerous studies have shown that when people greive for their pets, it oftentimes can be just as tough (or tougher) than losing a near and dear human. But it would be callous to say, "At least, it was only a cat," or "It was only a dog."

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54

How do you overcome this JW excuse?

by EdenOne in

during one of those meetings that took place before my jc, one of the elders, who was a good friend of mine back then and used to come up with a few outlandish personal views about some teachings, attempted to counter one of my arguments like this:.

eden - "well, if the truth doesn't change, why is it that what we teach as 'truth' has changed over the years (several examples given)?

how can we dogmatically claim at any given moment that we have 'the truth' if our teachings keep changing?".

Cold Steel

So, the truth is never wrong—it’s our perception of it that can be wrong? And wrong as it applies to the Governing Body is only wrong in retrospect; if it was taught in the past, then that’s because it was the Lord’s will at the time?

But what if something’s wrong in the future, or in the present?

The elder said, “The Organization is NEVER wrong.” Never applies to the past, present and future. Our perception of truth may vary.

Perhaps he means that, like the Universe, when we first see it, it appears as though we’re the center of it. But later we learn that, no, we’re just part of it. Our sun is among the many other suns that exist. Only it turns out later that some of those suns aren’t suns at all, but other galaxies. So overnight we see that the Universe was billions of times greater than we thought. Then maybe ten years from now we find out (or discover) that our universe isn’t THE UNIVERSE, but a universe; and that there could be billions of other universes out beyond ours, or coexisting with it in other dimensions. What if there are worlds or kingdoms that are so small we can’t detect them, or that our universe is only the inside of an atom in a giant’s heel (or worse)? All the other perceptions would then be not truth, but conjecture. Then, instead of never being wrong, we would then always be wrong. What does that say about us? That we were trying to deceive or that we, ourselves, were deceived?

When Jesus gave the parable about the blind leading the blind, he was saying that when our leaders are as blind as we are, everyone falls into the pit. The problem comes when the blind tell the rest of us they can see and we, ourselves, are blind and please, oh so very much, let us lead you because you’re either so blind or stupid that you can’t see. Well, they can’t see any better than we can. Everyone would be better off with people who believed the “new light” before it was the new light, right? Not the people who believed that the old light was the new light earlier in time.

No one can “see” unless they not only can see, but comprehend. I would ask the elder if those who were chosen and ordained were supposed to be better at seeing or worse? That doesn’t mean they have to be right about the Universe, but about the things pertaining to their callings. If there is no vision, the people perish, we’re told. Thus, our leaders must perceive truth as God gives them the light to see it. But even science has not only been spectacularly wrong about things, but when they find out, they’re not the quickest to change, either. Everyone knew smoking was harmful to one’s health when science was still being controlled by political winds that blew in the other direction. It also took science over a century to finally admit vitamin C prevented Scurvy, even after Amerindians showed sailors it could be prevented by certain fruits and bark that were rich vitamin C. They even thought tomatoes were poisonous, even when people were eating it in public gatherings. The doctors at the time called such demonstrations “dangerous” and “ill-advised.”

It’s good to learn more, but resistance to truth can come from anywhere. That’s why it’s incumbent on us to judge whether our political, scientific and religious leaders are leading us in areas we ought to be led. But among them all, religious and political leaders have the worst record of all. Look at how many religions there are, or even Christian denominations. In America, we judge our political leaders on whether they have charisma and good hair. Never mind that Ross Perot was absolutely correct in everything he predicted that’s now coming to pass! He was short and talked funny. And he was paranoid — or at least the government said so.

So the elder’s argument doesn’t wash. If someone is supposed to lead us, it would be a good idea if they actually were connected to God in some way. Not to someone who had never heard His voice or seen Him. Anyone can say God chose them. Joel Osteen got rich and he never once said he was called by or represented God in any way. He makes no pretenses about being an apostle or prophet, or being called to the ministry the night after he’d eaten an entire meatlover’s pizza. He hardly ever talks about God, except in the abstract. And what about the Reverend Al? When was the last time you heard him even mention Jesus Christ. He’s okay with the multimedia profaning the name of Christ in movies and stage presentations, but let someone mention the “N-word” and he’s on the next plane out, then angrily stabs his finger into air in front of news cameras and does his best to sound like a cotton-picker from Georgia. But privately, he disdains actual work and is fond of visiting the White House, mixing it up with politicians and eating in fancy restaurants, paying $60 for a steak. But the Governing Body takes money, tells you they’re God’s anointed FDS — yet they’ve never seen an angel, heard a voice, stood in the presence of a burning bush or seen God. They can’t even tell you that what they teach comes from revelation, even though all of God’s previous servants throughout history could. So, like blind men, sure, they can all feel different parts of the elephant. That’s perception and it varies. It may even be truth in some convoluted way; but anyone can perceive things, then change their views later. But why do you suppose they think they are the only ones who should get away with it? And do the members of the GB really think they are God’s chosen, or do you think they have doubts?

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24

Emblem Takers Mentally Unstable?

by Cold Steel in

onthewayout wrote: of course, for quite awhile (and probably still), congregations have been viewing any relatively young (maybe under 50 or even 60) partakers as mentally unstable and watchtower ignores such people anyway and says they must listen to the elders.

is this correct?

ever since the emblem-takers were given emeritus status as members of the faithful and discreet slave, have they been relegated to standard membership?

Cold Steel

OnTheWayOut wrote: Of course, for quite awhile (and probably still), congregations have been viewing any relatively young (maybe under 50 or even 60) partakers as mentally unstable and Watchtower ignores such people anyway and says they must listen to the elders.

Is this correct? Ever since the emblem-takers were given emeritus status as members of the Faithful and Discreet Slave, have they been relegated to standard membership? What is the purpose of the “Heavenly Class” of people on the earth? Do you know any of the “elect” who have left “the Truth”?

Or do you know any Heavenly Class members at your KH? How are they generally regarded — as crackpots, holy, rabbinic? If you’re of the Earthly Class and your best friend believes he or she is part of the Heavenly Class, if you were a faithful member, would you tend to believe or disbelieve them?

Finally, why is the Governing Body so convinced that the numbers of the Heavenly Class should be diminishing? Doesn’t anyone have the right to be in that body, regardless of what time they lived? Are they still considered part of the FDS?

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15

Funny Video - Phone call to Bethel

by Listener in

this video is hilarious and very, very clever.

youtuber, theunwitness makes a call to hq and asks the question "can i talk to anthony morris?

" and uses matthew 18:15-17 as his reason.

Cold Steel

Yes, he said he would call back and inquired about the best time to do so, but then he kept yapping and trying to egg the secretary on.

When I call someone and they're not there, I don't hang on and start a chat with the secretary. The secretary is not your friend. He or she is put there specifically to weed people like us out. Those guys in the Governing Body don't want to chat with the general membership. They see themselves as latter day apostles (though not really called or ordained). Jehovah just sort of picked them, like Jeremiah, before they were born. If one wanted to call and ask them where and how they received their callings, that would be a much more insightful question and more germane to the topic at hand. But you have to reach them before you can ask them.

And that old brother isn't about to connect anyone who seems like they want a debate! As Unwitness said himself, the pope wouldn't take a call like that; nor would Billy Graham or any other insulated religious leader. The members of the Governing Body believe themselves to have the most important callings in the world, greater than the pope or the late Graham. They're big fish in a little pond and they're used to being sought after with respect and a certain amount of awe. They aren't there to talk to members. That's what the elders are for.

15

Funny Video - Phone call to Bethel

by Listener in

this video is hilarious and very, very clever.

youtuber, theunwitness makes a call to hq and asks the question "can i talk to anthony morris?

" and uses matthew 18:15-17 as his reason.

Cold Steel

O, c'mon, Steve, Unwitness specifically told the secretary it was in regards to Matthew 18:15-17. Why didn't he just say, "No thank you, it's a personal call. I'll call back"? By letting the old fellow know he wasn't a personal friend of Mr. Morris, he kicked in the man's call screening mode. It's his job to protect the boss from crank calls and strangers who may be...I dunno...videographing something for YouTube.

All in all, he did his job.

To get a better chance of connecting, Unwitness could have said, "Oh, no thanks. My call is personal. Just tell him that...oh, never mind. I want it to be a surprise. I haven't talked to him in some time. So I'll just call back tomorrow. Mom said I should touch base with him if I was in town, that he'd probably want to talk to me. So can you not mention it?"

Can't say how long Morris would stay on the phone with him, but at least his chances would be better than if he started quoting scripture.

-------------

P.S. -- He can also call the secretary back and, if he can't get through, say, "Yeh...tell him that Vito says if he doesn't pay back the money he owes him, that Amageddon is gonna be rollin' around even sooner than he expects...catch my meanin'? I mean, I don't wanna haft to roll no fish in a newspaper and have it delivered to his family, capisce? You borrow money, you pay it back, right? Er...by the way, what'd you say your name was?"

9

New Light - How would you feel reading this as a JW?

by Ginx in

"scripture can be likened to a lamp which illuminates the truth.

it's mission is to shed the light of truth.

when a brighter light appears, the mission of the old one fades.

Cold Steel

Simply consider how many Christian sects today bank their exclusive legitimacy on the foundation of having returned to the Bible. The Restored Church of God, an adventist root that sprang out of the Worldwide Church of God, claims to be the sole legitimate church on Earth, and that it is the only one authorized to administer “the truth.” Its website proclaims: “The Restored Church of God, led by Pastor General David C. Pack, is commissioned by Jesus Christ to: Announce the good news of the kingdom of God to all nations (Matt. 24:14), including warning the modern nations descended from ancient Israel of impending national punishment (Isa. 58:1-2; Ezek. 33:1-19) [and] feed God’s flock called out of the world and into His Church (John 21:15-17; I Pet. 5:1-2) [It] is committed to freely offering—through the most extensive biblically based website in the world, rcg.org—thorough and comprehensive PLAIN UNDERSTANDING on virtually every teaching of the Bible, small and great.”

The churches of Christ, likewise, makes the same claim. Started by Alexander Campbell, it proclaims, “Where the Bible speaks, we speak! Where the Bible is silent, we are silent!” Its website states, “We are undenominational and have no central headquarters or president. The head of the church is none other than Jesus Christ himself.”

There are numerous other claimants out there, some that are apostolic Pentecostals, others that, like the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, that simply claim the scriptures were opened up to them. And often their legitimacy isn’t based on God’s calling them the way He did anciently, but in far more discreet ways—so discreet that the way they know they’re on the right track is because, well, just consider the contenders! What other church, they say, has such perfect doctrines that square perfectly with the scriptures? Ha, none! And in many cases, you’re discovering them is dependent on your very salvation. I’ve heard many evangelicals declare that anyone who dies an atheist, Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon, even Catholic, is hell bound, and I don’t mean just annihilation. I mean you better be paid up on your fire insurance!

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19

Do the witnesses baptize in Jesus name?

by runForever in

http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-christians/.

the third bullet point there claims they baptize in jesus name.

i know the baptism questions never mention jesus once.. .

Cold Steel

According to one Bible dictionary, the Greek word for “name” is frequently used in the Bible “for all that a name implies, of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence, etc., of everything that the name covers.” Jesus’ name, therefore, stands for the majestic and vast executive authority that Jehovah God has entrusted to him. Jesus himself stated: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” (Matthew 28:18)

This is most likely because Yahweh and Jesus are the same. All recent biblical scholarship on pre-Josiah reforms points to the fact that Yahweh was the preeminent Son of the Father God, El, El Elyon or Elohim. In other words, Yahweh was viewed as the mediator between man and the Father. Thus, when Moses spoke to God "face to face," it was the premortal Jesus he was speaking to. The titles (King of Kings, Lord of Lords, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, etc.) and attributes of both Yahweh and Jesus are identical in the Old and New Testaments. The adventists have always taught that this was because of their "oneness," but the Jews understood Jesus to the letter; that's why they tried to kill him.